Obamacare is not about freedom, it’s about conformity. i made this thread in hopes of people shedding some light onto my confusion, but now i am more confused then ever but then again, the people with communist/anarchist tendencies are going towards equality (which is pretty ironic for an anarchist to pick anything over liberty), and the people with capitalist tendencies are going towards liberty (which i find strange in times of such mass paranoia) As for the nonworking poor on welfare, a New York family of four living in subsidized housing, with food stamps, Medicaid, and other means-tested benefits, receives the equivalent of $40,000 a year—more than double what a 40-hour-a-week minimum-wage job pays in the city, though not counted in the government’s official income statistics. Obamacare's not about freedom, it's about conformity. It protects individuals from the tyranny of the majority. But why was the liberty that Madison so mightily struggled to protect so precious? The constant refrain can be summed up as "the rich have too much, we have too little, so give us more." This is when one party enjoys liberty to engage in a particular activity, but the others are denied the same right. Equality and Liberty: Friends or Foes? by Lewis Loflin. The following response was written by Brice Petgen, a outstanding former student, now in graduate school. At the outermost extreme, the French upheaval for égalité in 1789 and the Russian drive toward a classless society in 1917 drenched every inch of their respective countries in blood and immeasurably decreased the stock of human happiness and freedom for years to come. How tempting for the majority who have debts to transfer money secretly and silently away from the minority who are their creditors by debasing the currency, so that the real value of what they owe steadily shrinks, as Madison well remembered from the ruinous inflation of the Revolutionary War years. Part 7: Liberty is more important than security by Lewis Loflin. Almost certainly, Madison thought, it would center on “the apportionment of taxes.” Levying taxes “is an act which seems to require the most exact impartiality, yet there is perhaps no legislative act in which greater opportunity and temptation are given to a predominant party, to trample on the rules of justice. By liberty I don't mean having the liberty to punch children in the face for fun. That 2nd amendment is there to protect us from him! The modern day feminism which loosely bases itself off the Communist model is a danger to our society, the equality they promote is oppressive one, equality where specific individuals or groups are the favorites of the Government, equality which forbids the discussion in … They knew what man could inflict on man. How seductive for the multitudinous farmers to levy taxes on the much smaller number of merchants or bankers or manufacturers, while exempting themselves. “The bowels as well as the surface of the earth,” Hamilton wrote, will be “ransacked for articles which were before neglected. Equality without liberty is tyranny. Even a small degree of liberty will satisfy man, but no … There are mainly two juxtapositions the author uses to distinguish liberty from equality: Catholicism with Protestantism and democracy with monarchy. The cry for equality permeates social media, the major news outlets, and the campaign trail. And an immigration policy that Republican voters would embrace. Liberalism isn't about freedom, it's about reshaping man so that man becomes the servant of Big Government, so that we the people cease being the sovereigns, but we're the subjects. The commentator quoted Lawrence Reed, President of the Foundation for Economic Education. Anti-white racism was concocted by Marxists in the 1960s that so loathed their own culture and "privilege" they developed an irrational hatred of their own race. Individualism or colle When it tells us how much we owe, the government excludes trillions of dollars in obligations. He pointed out that there is an inevitable tension between liberty and equality: to maintain equal distribution in society, a central planner would have to constantly interfere with people’s personal choices. They are the two sides of the same coin. Professor Paul Seabury once (1976, Orbis ) summarized this reality, as follows: “For better or worse, since the beginning of the republic Americans have displayed strong sentiments about their country’s role in world affairs. When we see the same faults followed by the same misfortunes,” Madison wrote, “we may reasonably think that if we could have known the first we might have avoided the others.” So, against the liberty and opportunity central to the Founding American vision, which produced two centuries of freedom and prosperity unmatched in history, what have the dreams of equality yielded? Series: Part 1: Government is not the source of our rights. He uses national socialism as his prime example. Both the guest commentator and the caller agreed that liberty trumps equality every time. It’s hard to imagine a higher aspiration for your fellow man than that. Blather from government officials about the unjust inequality of American society—on top of a generation’s worth of hot air from the universities, the mainstream media, and the multibillion-dollar antibusiness entertainment industry about how Hamiltonian, Madisonian America oppresses a wide range of aggrieved victims, while poisoning the air, the water, and the very earth itself (though, of course, human ingenuity can solve every problem human ingenuity creates)—all this inexorably erodes the spirit of self-reliance, enterprise, and opportunity that animated the Founders, in their justified faith that they were creating a unique innovation in government that would immeasurably advance the happiness of mankind. The liberty to choose something as important as your own health care has also shrunk, unless you’re very rich, so inequality has also widened. I judge that his thoughts are worthy of your consideration. And by equality I don't mean empty lip service nor believing in your heart some theological doctrine that men are equal. California is shedding residents and businesses. Equality by itself is tyranny; it's inhumane... Obama today going on and on about gun control telling us it’s time to move on, we’ve waited long enough. It began in the Great Depression, which convinced Franklin Roosevelt and Fiorello La Guardia that individuals were too puny, powerless, and insignificant to shape their fates in a world seemingly governed by vast, impersonal forces that only a vast and mighty government could match. In California’s Monterey County, for instance, a 54-year-old part-time worker making $18,000 annually will pay $1 a month for the same mid-range policy that will cost a 54-year-old with a $60,000 annual salary $848 a month—almost 18 percent of his pretax income, with almost triple the maximum yearly out-of-pocket co-pays, according to a California Health Benefit Exchange website. Extracts Black Skin Privilege and the American Dream. Political liberty bestows exalted pleasures, from time to time, upon a certain number of citizens. The liberty to choose something as important as your own health care has also shrunk, unless … These are all old French or Latin words. It should teem with industry, trade, finance, everything imaginable. 0 reply It is informative, perplexing, provocative. Hamilton and Madison had a much larger and nobler sense of human possibility. Written by famous German Roman Catholic rightist, Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, and published by Christendom Press, _Liberty or Equality?_ consists of reflections on the nature of liberty and the same opposition to democracy as seen in Kuehnelt-Leddihn's later work _Leftism Revisited_. you have to do a little bit more you have to make it more substantive if you make it more substantive for career based on talent. Equality is more important than liberty. The rights of the individual vs. the collective or "common good." This message may be routed through support staff. an ebb and flow: What's more important, Liberty or Equality? Equality is Liberty Again, we can see that these two, far from being opposites, actually refer to the same concept. Extracts Black Skin Privilege and the American Dream. Meaning different definitions depending on what political background you are from. Life without liberty is unthinkable. What exactly is the equality that we think we value? See Letter on Liberal Racism. By the Depression’s end, La Guardia had built the nation’s first archipelago of subsidized housing projects—nine in all—along with publicly funded hospitals, and he spent taxpayer dollars to take over and subsidize the city’s subway and bus lines and to establish a municipal health-insurance system. Liberty More Important Than Equality. Equality is important as a necessary condition for liberty, and it works against itself if it enslaves the people it is meant to liberate. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." We are equal, he went on to explain, in having the same God-given rights that no one can legitimately take away from us. Johnson’s originally Hamiltonian impulse “to give our fellow citizens a fair chance to develop their own capacities” took as its operating model a cockeyed, far-left New York City community-organizing program, the chief self-development activity of which was to protest noisily against “the System”—Hamilton’s American capitalism, that is to say—which the community organizers deemed too racist and inequitable ever to provide opportunity. Picking up the New Dealers’ torch, Lindsay fell over himself with eagerness to make New York a demonstration project for Johnson’s War on Poverty—a grotesque failure that, on its 50th anniversary this year, mainstream reporters too young and uninformed to know better have striven to repaint as a success. Without equality, liberty becomes mere privilege. It seems there a a few different views that determine what liberty actually is. Alright ladies and gentlemen, which is more important: Liberty or Equality? Liberty is the only social, political, or economic arrangement that requires that we live to high standards of conduct and character and rewards us when we do so. It's not intended to unleash liberty, to unleash the economy, so that you can pursue your interests and your wants and your desires. Aristocracy, not democracy, gave us liberty. To James Madison, inequality of possessions would be a sign of the new nation’s success in protecting liberty. The federal government today seeks to reshape the individual. Authoritarianism is by and large condemned because it supposedly denies liberty and equality, whereas constitutionalism is praised because it supposedly protects these values. Lately, we have come, as a people, to choose liberty. The cry for equality permeates social media, the major news outlets, and the campaign trail. Treat people equitably by giving the same rights under the law and not subject to abuse by liberalizing the interpretation of laws. This is a most unusual book. There can be no real liberty without equality. Cruz gets an admission out of Holder; Paul filibus... Bill O'Reilly's fiscal awakening (UPDATE: morally ... House GOP leadership at it again: ramming through ... Sequester perspective: Obama's perpetual campaign. It's not a matter of me thinking liberty is more important (as they are both equally important in my opinion), but a matter of it being easier to get equality out of liberty than the other way around. But thereafter, radical redistribution resumed, so that by 2010, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the top-earning 40 percent of households paid 106.2 percent of U.S. income taxes, while the bottom 40 percent, because of refundable tax credits such as the earned income-tax credit and the child tax credit, paid minus 9.1 percent. Even this most radical of the Founding Fathers knew that the equality of rights on which American independence rests would necessarily lead to inequality of condition. By Douglas V. Gibbs Author, Speaker, Instructor, Radio Host A society cannot practice liberty and equality simultaneously. Moreover, all these officials (except the judges) were elected representatives of the people: they were the agents through whom Americans, who had no rulers, governed themselves. For the next collaboration of a “progressive” president and New York mayor to reduce inequality—that of Lyndon Johnson and John Lindsay—certainly began as farce but ended in a tragedy that continues to unfold to this day. He was responding to my post, "Are You a Ant or a Grasshopper". It would be, in Madison’s famous phrase, a “tyranny of the majority.” As Continental Congressman Richard Henry Lee put it, an “elective despotism” is no less a despotism, for all its democratic trappings. The welfare underclass, filled with aggrieved resentment and void of hope, is the most extreme case in point. Equality is 'granted' by the society/community in which you live. Freedom is an attitude and a state of mind. First principle: the liberty principle. Liberty entails inequality and equality entails restrictions on liberty. Herman Cain, 2012 GOP candidate, dies at 74. He pointed out that there is an inevitable tension between liberty and equality: to maintain equal distribution in society, a central planner would have to constantly interfere with people’s personal choices. America shouldn’t just be an agricultural country, he knew. Liberty, once lost, is rarely regained. See Letter on Liberal Racism. Now that President Obama has turned into a Brobdingnagian government power grab the governmental takeover of health care that began modestly with Mayor La Guardia and that ballooned with the War on Poverty’s creation of Medicaid and Medicare, America will more resemble the fiscally unsustainable European welfare states than the U.S. under the Madisonian Constitution. So while four of the 18 specific powers that Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress concern the levying of taxes and the borrowing and coining of money to “provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States”—taxes that “shall be uniform throughout the United States”—eight of the rest deal with spending only for military and naval purposes, while the “general welfare” powers extend only to building post offices and post roads; establishing federal courts; protecting intellectual property by copyrights and patents; and regulating bankruptcies, naturalization, and interstate and foreign commerce. His main challenge at the Convention, as he saw it, was to guard against precisely that outcome. The liberty and opportunity that the United States would afford, Hamilton believed with all his fiery intensity, would allow individuals to realize every God-given potential and to become all that they had it within themselves to be. “Equality,” says Tocqueville, “but while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.” Gradually, the coveted equality turns against a people as government intervenes at a continually increasing rate to grant equality at the price of liberty. Americans knew how grievous its opposite was, both from the enslaved blacks they saw all around them as well as from their knowledge that their own forebears had fled British persecution of non-Anglican Protestants or European persecution of all Protestants, denied even freedom to express their own beliefs. Freedom is way more important the Equality Equality is an idea, a belief as equality cannot happen without freedom. Justice is the instrument by which both an individual's liberty and the ideal of equality are balanced, protected and preserved in a modern state or society. It stayed so for half a century, until the Reagan administration gradually lowered income-tax rates and made them less unequal. Labour has been trying to be both liberal and collectivist at the same time – but more equality inevitably means less liberty Wed 24 Feb 2010 … Nevertheless, despite their material comfort—which includes the latest sneakers, flat-screen TVs, angry rap downloads, junk food galore, and bigger apartments than many middle-class Europeans can afford—the spiritual poverty that besets many of the underclass, the tawdry content of their character, is chilling, and ought to give pause to any supporter of the huge, redistributionist welfare-state project. . To insist that all use their liberty the same would destroy it. This is a crucial difference between liberty and the soul-crushing, paternalistic snares that are offered as alternatives. It establishes a base level of intellectual, philosophical, spiritual, and economic diversity that ensures that there is enough free play of ideas in a society for the best solution to shine through. Liberty and equality have usually in England been considered antithetic; and, since fraternity has rarely been considered at all, the famous trilogy has been easily dismissed as a hybrid abortion. Ambition burned within him, along with a keen but unformed sense of his own talent. Maybe a war would come, he daydreamed, and give him his chance. Sometime in the 18th century, the word equality gained ground as a political ideal, but the idea was always vague. Most notably, Federalist 10 pointed out, “From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results.” That inequality would be a sign of the new nation’s success, not failure. Equity is a Marxist construct, and to even claim that civil rights are "rights for equality" is denying the reality of the system of liberty established in the United States, and following the existence of a Marxist drive to extinguish that liberty we seek to revitalize. But of all the Founders, Treasury secretary Alexander Hamilton gave the most positive, eloquent, and inspiring answer to that question—though, in fact, he thought that he was answering a question about economics. Thanks to sluggish economic and stagnant employment growth, for the younger generation of Americans, it’s already no longer true that “each individual can find his proper element, and can call into activity the whole vigour of his nature.” The liberty to be whatever your talents might allow you to become has shriveled and could continue to shrivel toward a European dearth of opportunity. To do so would be just as grievous a tyranny as the despotism of any sultan in his divan. • Liberty refers to the freedom that individuals have whereas Equality refers to treating all individuals in the same manner. Liberty is more important than equality; people don't always get out what they put into life, but life simply isn't fair! It seeks to sabotage them, to obstruct them, to crush them. Those who favored equality sat on the left, opposite those who supported the king; not because they championed liberty and equality over royal authority but because they viewed equality—equality enforced at the edge of a guillotine blade if necessary—as the basis of any true freedom, as more fundamental than liberty. Some of us have talent and the ability to reason, others are truly stupid. Freedom IS more important than equality! Equality has always been the more frail twin, but it has now become particularly vulnerable. Who the hell does he think he is? In fact, they believe freedom of the individual should be earned rather than bestowed at birth. FOREWORD. What exactly is the equality that we think we value? Nozick, on the other hand, considered liberty to be the more important value. Laugh of the evening: prepare for all-out Kim Jong... Obama admin plays 'CSI:NewYork' with UBL's son-in-law. Indeed, he believed that something like an aristocracy would arise—springing from talent and virtue, he ardently hoped, not from inherited wealth or status. And they demand that we surrender to them. Equality without liberty destroys individual sovereignty. Equality is an often-cited virtue in our society, but depending on how we define equality, it may be more vice than virtue. Equality every day confers a number of small enjoyments on every man. Illegitimate, orphaned, and poor, Hamilton dreamed big dreams as a teenage clerk, sitting on his countinghouse stool on a small West Indian island whose only business was sugar and slaves. The democratic republic that the American Revolution brought into being, however, contained the seeds of a new threat to natural rights, Madison fretted. See the wikipedia version on liberty and political freedom: Nor is it easy for someone branded his victimizer, and taxed unequally to support him and the army of bureaucrats who live by claiming to make sure he gets his due, to retain with confidence his own sense of dignity and purpose. The liberty to be whatever your talents might allow you to become has shriveled and could continue to shrivel toward a European dearth of opportunity. One can’t help hear the echo of Richard Henry Lee’s phrase, an “elective despotism,” when recalling that Congress—which passed the Affordable Care Act by the slimmest of majorities, without bothering to read it—set up an appointive board, largely unanswerable to the people’s elected representatives, to make Obamacare’s most important decisions, greatly expanding the undemocratic administrative apparatus that increasingly governs the country by edict; or when one recalls that President Obama unconstitutionally changed the law, also by edict, with a casual stroke of that pen, imposing by diktat what the legislature won’t legislate. More detailed message would go here to provide context for the user and how to proceed. The fact that the Internal Revenue Service that collects all this money for the government to redistribute does so without observing “the most exact impartiality” that Madison urged but rather engages in schemes “to trample on the rules of justice”—as Kimberley Strassel’s exemplary Wall Street Journal reporting on the agency’s suppression of Tea Party groups has shown—would be one more proof to Madison that “[i]n framing a government of men over men the great difficulty is this: You must first enable the government to control the governed, and in the next place, oblige it to control itself.”. V. Thomas Mawhinney, Ph.D., 2/2/2010 The following are Mr. Petgen's words: As I… Mark Levin began last night's program with an essentially important question: Which is more important, liberty or equality? Under its safeguard of our equal right to liberty, each of us, Madison saw, will employ his different talents, drive, and energy, to follow his own individual dream of happiness, with a wide variety of successes and failures. To me they are too differnt to compare. If all men were ever born equal then they never stayed that way long nor will they.People are all different with different abilities some will always do better than others and to stop them you would have to infringe upon their liberty. Approved by eNotes Editorial Team Posted on August 28, 2011 at 11:33 AM Without liberty, fairness is impossible. In the twentieth century, it most dramatically reshaped the nation whenever a “progressive” president like Obama joined forces with a “progressive” New York mayor like de Blasio to redistribute wealth through unequal taxation—in a way that Madison would have seen as a betrayal of his most fundamental beliefs, sure to end badly. 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